BestPractice Day 2018

Speakers at the BestPractice Day 2018

Over 30 top-tier international experts from business, the industry and research will present benchmark case studies from over 20 organizations. Let yourself be inspired by their valuable experiences which you can apply to your own path towards top performance.

Dr. Christian Abegglen

St. Galler Business School

Has more than 25 years of experience in the implementation and management of consulting projects for the development of strategies as well as of corporate dynamics and sales concepts. His specialist knowledge covers also the reorganizations on management and corporate level of renowned international corporations and medium-sized companies. Through his expertise he is active in the assessment of business plans, management strategies and succession regulations. As management coach, he has already conducted over 2000 seminar and workshop days in the executive management area. Dr. Christian Abegglen is author of numerous seminar publications and contributions in the field of integrated management, leadership, strategy and corporate development with the aim of the scientifically supporting of teaching concepts and methods as well as the development of didactic concepts. His current projects contain the subjects corporate dynamics based on the integrated management concept "Business Model Innovation and Network Intelligence" as well as leadership 4.0 against the background of increasing digitalization and globalization.

Dr.-Ing. Stefan Aßmann

Robert Bosch GmbH

Is head of the newly established sector Bosch Connected Industry, where Bosch bundles its expertise to develop Industry 4.0 solutions for their own plants as well as for external customers. His leading role at Bosch Connected Industry was preceded by various positions within the company. Among others, he acted as product area manager for assembly facilities and special purpose machines with worldwide responsibility for ten locations. Prior to this, he held numerous other positions within the Bosch Group, including those of a plant manager, department manager and group leader – both domestic and abroad. Dr. Stefan Aßmann was born on February 19th, 1964 in Bonn, Germany. After his high school graduation in 1983, he studied electrical engineering at RWTH Aachen, Germany, and took his diploma examination in 1990. After working as research associate in the Laboratory for Machine Tools and Business Operations (WZL) at the RWTH Aachen, he obtained his doctorate in the field of mechanical engineering in 1996.

Wilhelm Bauer

Fraunhofer Institute IAO

Is managing director of the Fraunhofer Institute for Industrial Engineering IAO in Stuttgart, Germany. He is also chairman of the Fraunhofer Innovation Research Group and managing director of Fraunhofer Italia Research s.c.a.r.l. As director of the institute he leads a research organization with about 650 employees. He is responsible for research and implementation projects in innovation research, technology management, future life & work, and smarter cities. As technology representative of the state of Baden-Württemberg and member of various committees, he advises politics and business. Prof. Wilhelm Bauer is author of more than 350 scientific and technical publications. He is also lecturer at the Universities of Stuttgart and Hannover, Germany. In addition to this, he holds the position of deputy director of the Institute of Industrial Engineering and Technology Management IAT at the University of Stuttgart. In 2012, he received the honor of the state of Baden-Württemberg as "the day after tomorrow maker".

Christian Baum

Spitalzentrum Biel

Has been working as head of processes and quality management at the hospital in Biel / Bienne (Spitalzentrum Biel), Switzerland, since 2014. His tasks include the modelling and implementation of a quality strategy built on the lean philosophy. From 2010 to 2014, he was responsible for realisation of all CIP / Kaizen programs at the Swiss Federal Railways (SBB AG). He is also employed as lecturer at the university of applied sciences business management in Bern, Switzerland, where he teaches quality management, occupational safety and sustainability.

Katja Berghahn

Kiekert AG

Katja Berghahn, Global Lean Manufacturing Manager, is responsible for Lean Manufacturing at Kiekert AG, the technology leader for automotive locking systems with headquarters in Heiligenhaus, She reports directly to Dr. Guido Hanel, Chief Operating Officer (COO). Katja Berghahn has been responsible for the global introduction and further development of the Kiekert production system since 2016. Since 2004 she has held various positions with renowned automotive suppliers in the fields of lean manufacturing, manufacturing engineering and logistics. While Katja Berghahn studied production engineering in Cologne, she carried out various consulting projects for German and European companies. She also holds a Master's degree in Business and Engineering from the University of Stuttgart.

Roland Beuter


Has over 10 years of consulting experience in the development of services and trainings for lean management. As director of the Staufen academy he takes the supervision of the seminars, leads and coaches the team of trainers, is lead trainer for management as well as leadership and conceptualizes qualification programs. At the fischerwerke Artur Fischer GmbH & Co. KG he managed the continuous improvement process in conception and introduction of the production systems as well as implementation of the value-stream oriented factory layouts. In addition, he was head of plastics assembly (120 employees) and took responsibility for supply service, quality, costs, planning as well as controlling.

Gunter Schöller


Is senior expert at the Staufen AG and has more than 15 years of consulting experience in the field of operational excellence. He leads projects in regional banks as well as the service sector and works as interim manager in large IT projects. Gunter Schöller was head of IT and internal services at the Management Partner GmbH. Previously, among others, he headed the division commercial retraining of the IB educational center in Stuttgart.

Joachim Steinke


Is a lean production specialist with long-standing practical experience. He has been a consultant at the Staufen AG since the middle of 2001. As Principal he manages lean projects with specific metal processing requirements. Following practical training to become a machine mechanic, he was a CNC programmer. After becoming a machine foreman, he managed the CNC programming division at Müller Weingarten. He subsequently held responsibility for the cube processing division. Following the change at the Weingarten company division, Joachim Steinke managed complex major projects from pre-planning to the operational handover to the production. As a key account manager at the Komet Group he supported major customers in tool technology projects.

E. Melanie Studer

Spitalzentrum Biel

Has been working as promoter lean hospital at the public hospital in Biel (Spitalzentrum Biel, Switzerland) since 2015 with focus on the emergency department, pre-surgery team-consultation, process map, organization of work processes and skill grade mix. Before, she worked for different organizations in the health sector. From 2010 to 2014, she was head of health and deputy secretary general at physioswiss, the Swiss Physiotherapy Association. E. Melanie Studer has a MScBA of the Bern University of Applied Sciences with a major in corporate / business Development.

Kristina Tretiak

Lufthansa Technik Logistik Services GmbH (LTLS)

Kristina Tretiak has been responsible for Shop Floor Management (SFM) at Lufthansa Technik Logistik Services GmbH (LTLS), since 2013. Acting as a consultant und coach she successfully implemented SFM at LTLS branches in Germany. In order to continuously improve the leadership quality she was in charge of implementing KATA in 2016 and acts now as a consultant in a project aiming to accelerate material flow. From 2011-2013 she was responsible for Lean Production at the Product Division of Base Maintenance, Aircraft Painting at Lufthansa Technik AG (LHT). Currently, she continues her activity for LHT, now as a Lean Academy Trainer. She graduated at the University of Hamburg in Sinology, Civil Law and Organizational Psychology. Previously, she received a degree in Educational Science and Psychology studying in Russia and China.

René Borbonus


founded the training institute Communico in 2000 after his professional trainer education. Today, he is a sought-after speaker and is regarded as one of the best rhetoricians in German. He accompanies and advises executives, entrepreneurs, and public figures on the way to their successful performance. His method: Being a sparring partner instead of a teacher. René Borbonus does not try to force customers into the corset of the orator, but rather awakens the joy of free speech to make the best out of their individual strengths. Amongst others, he is active as lecturer at the ZfU in Zurich, the University of St. Gallen and the Hasso Plattner Institute in Potsdam. He is also columnist for the economic magazine "Business Punk", trainer of the year 2013 in Austria and member of the German Knigge Council.

Dr. Arndt Brandenberg

Innogy SE

Joined RWE in 2005. From 2013, he was designing and leading the change journey of the RWE Group, in particular since 2015 as head of the company’s largest group wide transformation program NWoW (New Way of Working). Following the split of RWE in 2016 and the IPO of the innogy SE, the subsidiary for renewable energies, he moved there. Prior to his current job, he was project manager at McKinsey. After joining RWE, he worked as head of the M & A valuation team, leaded several controlling teams and worked as CFO in RWE Hungaria, including the stock listed Elmü-Émász group. Dr. Arndt Brandenberg holds a PhD in economics with special focus on motivation theories and incentive systems.

Alexander Busse

Technical University of Darmstadt (PTW)

Holds a master´s degree in industrial engineering from the Technical University of Darmstadt and is research associate at the institute for production management, technology and machine tools (PTW). Since 2016, he has done his doctorate in the center of industrial productivity (CiP). After his graduation in 2014, Alexander Busse worked as a business consultant dealing with the subject digitalization. His research is focused on “lean production and information technology”. He looks for ways to use process and machine data to create beneficiary use cases - for example for “predictive maintenance”.

Lars Thomsen

future matters AG

Is one of the world's leading futurologists. As researcher of future trends, he is considered one of the most influential experts in trend forecasting within the fields of energy, mobility, and smart networks. Since the age of 22, he has worked as consultant in the development of strategies and business models for the future. He has worked with various types of organizations across Europe, including independent companies, corporations, institutions, and government-related agencies. His reference list includes more than 800 organizations. Lars Thomsen’s extensive professional network helps him facilitate frequent one-on-one meetings with other international leaders of innovation. Around 30% of his time is spent on traveling around the world for the purpose of research and exploration. In addition to his professional activities, he is also member of several think tanks as well as the World Future Society in Washington, D.C. Currently, he lives with his family at the Lake Zurich in Switzerland. Lars Thomsen is a sought-after keynote speaker for international congresses and conferences. His lectures inspire through a balance of provocative and fact-based hypotheses that together illustrate possible future scenarios. His audiences include board members, supervisory board members, executives, customers, and employees.

Art Byrne

J.W. Childs Associates

Art Byrne is an Operating Partner with J.W. Childs Associates, a private equity firm specializing in leveraged buyouts and recapitalizations of middle-market growth companies, where he leads the implementation of lean management at Childs' portfolio companies. While serving as CEO or an equivalent position, he implemented lean principles in more than 30 companies (including subsidiaries) and 14 countries during the past 30 years, giving him a matchless knowledge of how to turn around companies using a lean strategy. Art Byrne began his lean journey as General Manager at the General Electric Company. Later, as Group Executive, he helped introduce lean to the Danaher Corporation. As CEO of The Wiremold Company he quadrupled the company size and increased its enterprise value by 2,500% in less than 10 years. Art Byrne holds a Bachelor degree in economics from Boston College and an Master degree from Babson College. He was a past Shingo Prize winner and a member of the Shingo Academy.

Conny Dethloff

OTTO GmbH & Co. KG

Graduated as mathematician in 1999. Immediately afterwards, he entered actively the economic practice. Until 2011, he worked as a consultant at PwC and IBM Germany, from 2012 as senior manager in the sector business intelligence at the OTTO GmbH & Co KG. His main task is to lead OTTO in the context of BI, big data, and culture into the digital age. From 2009, he has reflected new findings having generated in the daily business in his blog "Reise des Verstehens" (“journey of understanding”) (http://blog-conny-dethloff.de/).

Markus Franz


As academy leader of the Staufen Group is responsible for all international activities of the Staufen academy business. These include practical orientated qualification- and benchmarking-services as well as the implementation of top management events. Previously, he was CEO of Staufen’s Chinese subsidiary where he was responsible for the strategic development of the China business, for the development of the external qualification and training offer, and the reinforcement and extension of the (inter-) national BestPractice Partner network.

Gunnar Groebler

Vattenfall AB

Started his career at Vattenfall in 1999 joining corporate development. He has held various positions within the division strategy / corporate development both in Germany and Sweden. In 2009, he became head of corporate development / M&A for the region Central Europe. In 2011, he joined the business unit Hydro where he was responsible for the German Hydro portfolio comprising of about 3000 MW installed capacity of pumped storage and run of river hydro plants. In January 2014, Gunnar Groebler started to run the business unit wind within Vattenfall for the Continental / UK market. Since April 2015, he has been member of Vattenfall’s Executive Group Management taking the responsibility for Vattenfall’s entire wind business.

Dr. Ulrich Hermann

Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG

Is head of the Heidelberg digital business and services segment at the Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG. After his studies of mechanical engineering at the RWTH Aachen as well as at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (M.I.T.) in Cambridge, USA, he obtained his PhD in business administration at the University of St. Gallen in 1996. In 1998, he became managing director of Bertelsmann Springer Science and Business Media Switzerland AG and took over the management of Süddeutsche Verlag Hüthig in 2002. In 2005, he was appointed chairman of the board of management of the Wolters Kluwer Germany Holding and from 2010 on director of Wolters Kluwer n. V. Region Central Europe. Since November 2016, he has been member of the management board of the Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG.

Dr. Mark Hiller

RECARO Aircraft Seating

Studied Economic Science at the University in Kaiserslautern/Germany and at the Babcock Graduate School of Management in the USA. After various consulting projects he obtained his PhD in 2002 at the Centre for Production Technology at the University of Kaiserslautern. In 2003, Dr. Hiller started in the RECARO Group: At first in the Holding as Head of Synergy Management, later he headed Customer Affairs at RECARO Aircraft Seating, signing responsible for Sales, Program Management and Customer Support. In 2007, Dr. Hiller was promoted to the executive board as Chief Operations Officer. In April 2012, he was appointed as Chief Executive Officer of RECARO Aircraft Seating. In 2014 Dr. Hiller also became shareholder of the company.

Tobias Kehrer

Carl Stahl Süd GmbH

Has been managing director of the Carl Stahl Süd GmbH since 2015 and is responsible for ten sales- and service subsidiaries in the South of Germany. Carl Stahl deals with lifting and safety solutions. After his studies in politics and public administration at the University of Konstanz, he occupied different areas of responsibility within the Carl Stahl Group as leading manager of the controlling department of the corporate group. Among others, Tobias Kehrer created the ProcessEvolution program for handling the lean transformation at Carl Stahl. Now in his new job, he continues this way within the company group.

Thomas Keller

RECARO Aircraft Seating Polska Sp. z o.o.

After a professional education as electrical engineer and later studies in business management, Mr. Keller held management positions in various machine building companies. After joining the Autoliv-Group, the world leader in safety technology for automotive, he led the Polish Autoliv plant as quality manager successfully to the certification acc. to ISO TS 16949 and ISO 14001. In the following years he performed as a plant manager actively the complete Lean transformation of the factory with 1200 employees and developed the site into one of the most efficient of the whole group in Europe. As CEO of STAUFEN Polska, one of the most important international consulting companies in Lean management, Mr. Keller led up from 2010 more than 40 projects at well known customers worldwide and worked among others as a management coach. Since 2013, Mr. Keller is responsible as a general manager for the continuous development of the Polish site of RECARO Aircraft Seating and achieved together with his team considerable success. As the lead plant for the implementation of Lean Enterprise as holistic approach, the Polish factory plays an important role for the whole RECARO Aircraft Seating group, topped by winning the CEE Manufacturing Excellence Awards 2016 and 2017 in the “Supply Chain Management & Logistics” and “Customer Satisfaction” categories as well as the “CEE Plant Manager of the year” title for Mr. Keller.

Harald Knoke


Has more than 10 years of working experience in the development and implementation of lean and six sigma strategies, in the corporate development concerning lean enterprise, in the building of lean organizations and the introduction of shopfloor management. Additionally, he is senior trainer as well as shopfloor management coach and manages international lean projects. Harald Knoke has also 20 years of experience as head of different departments inside the aviation industry, for example in project management and supply chain management.

Jochen Leppert


War fast 30 Jahre lang in den Unternehmen Michelin, Beiersdorf, Freudenberg und TE connectivity für die Bereiche Supply Chain - und Lean Management in globaler oder europäischer Verantwortung tätig. Neben der strategischen Entwicklung und operativer Umsetzung, leitete er zahlreiche internationale SAP Projekte. In den letzten 4 Jahren übernahm Jochen Leppert neben dem Bereich Lean Management die Verantwortung für die digitale Transformation von TE connectivity innerhalb der europäischen Region mit 14 Werken und mehr als 10.000 Mitarbeitern. Auf Grund dieser Tätigkeiten bietet er ausgeprägte Erfahrung in verschiedenen Branchen und Themengebieten entlang der gesamten Wertschöpfungskette. Seit 2017 ist er Senior Expert bei Staufen-Neonex.

Urs Meier

Urs Meier Management AG

Knows what it means to deal with enormous pressure every day - whether as a successful business man, in the stadium in front of more than 60,000 spectators, in front of millions of self - employed experts on the screens, as former head of the Swiss top runners, as advisor to FIFA, UEFA or as Commentator of the ZDF. Since 2005, he has been commenting on the games of the German national team as well as the World Cup and European Championships in ZDF, with Johannes B. Kerner, Jürgen Klopp and Oliver Kahn. In 2006 he received the "Deutschen Fernsehpreis" for the best sports broadcast. He provides and sets new standards in modern management, based on experience, practical linkage and solution-oriented adaptation from professional sports and modern management. He has been a sought-after consultant, coach and speaker for years.

Prof. Dr.-Ing. Joachim Metternich

Technical University of Darmstadt (PTW)

Is head of the areas of Production Management, Technology and Machine Tools (PTW) at the Darmstadt Technical University. After studying industrial engineering, he worked as a research assistant at the PTW, where he was awarded a doctorate (Dr.-Ing.). Until 2004, he was Speaker of the Managing Director Production of the German machine manufacturer TRUMPF Werkzeugmaschinen GmbH. Subsequently, Prof. Joachim Metternich was Head of a Production group at BOSCH Diesel s.r.o. in the Czech Republic. In 2008, he took over the management of the worldwide production system (KPS) at Knorr-Bremse, a German manufacturer of brake systems for rail vehicles. Since 2012, Prof. Metternich has been back at the TU Darmstadt and one of the two institute managers of PTW.

Stefan Munsch

MUNSCH Chemie-Pumpen GmbH

Has been managing director of the MUNSCH Chemie-Pumpen GmbH and the MUNSCH Kunststoff-Schweißtechnik GmbH since 1993. He studied mechanical and electrical engineering at the University of Koblenz, Germany, as well as at the Technical University of Darmstadt, Germany. From 1988 to 1993 he worked as project engineer in the international plant engineering and construction at the Lurgi GmbH in Frankfurt am Main, Germany.

Dr. Markus Müllner

St. Galler Business School

Has been lecturer at the St. Gallen Business School for leadership and marketing since 2005, and in addition since 2015, he has been the director of customized programs. He is a specialist in the areas of leadership, especially leadership 4.0 and change. Among others, as former marketing director of an international medical technology company he has extensive experience in marketing and key account management. Dr. Markus Müllner teaches at various Swiss universities and in international management programs of ABB, Holcim, and some others. He completed his doctoral studies at the University of St. Gallen in Switzerland.

Dr.-Ing. Matthias Möller

Bosch Rexroth

Has worked at the Bosch Group since 1999. Since then, he has held various positions in Germany and worldwide – both in the mechanical engineering and the automotive sector of the corporate group. The topic "production" is a common thread through all his tasks. Today, he is head of the technical functions department of the Bosch Rexroth plant in Homburg, Germany. He is responsible for the production and process planning at Homburg as well as for seven international locations in the product area. Dr. Matthias Möller completed his mechanical engineering studies at the Technical University Dortmund, Germany, and graduated in 1995. His doctorate he obtained in “knowledge management between production and product development” at the TU Dortmund as well.

Christian Möllers


Has worked at the Staufen AG in restructuring of SME companies since 2013. He studied business economics at the Goethe University in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, majoring in finance, controlling, accounting, and tax. After graduating, he started his professional career at the PricewaterhouseCoopers GmbH WPG. As senior consultant he lastly led diverse auditing and consulting projects. During his work at PricewaterhouseCoopers, he developed a strong and intersectoral knowledge in finance. Afterwards, he worked as business development manager for BK Partners Asset Management in Mexico where he took responsibility for numerous due diligence projects in order to valuate different international investment opportunities with focus on financials and strategy.

Remco Peters


Has worked as partner and master coach in the field of shopfloor management for the Staufen AG since 2013. He began his career as a consultant at the company Agamus Consult after studying business administration at the Rijksuniversiteit Groningen in the Netherlands. He deepened his consulting experience at Capgemini within the framework of international projects in the automotive industry. Most recently, Remco Peters was responsible for the division practice lean manufacturing & administration as principal at the MBtech Consulting GmbH. The focus of his consulting activity lies in conceiving and implementing lean company processes in the automotive and manufacturing industry. He is expert for shopfloor management and the sustainable change of organizations.

Markus Reichert


Has worked for the division WIEPROconsulting at the SEW-EURODRIVE GmbH & Co. KG since 2004, of which he has been in charge since 2010. At first, he was entrusted with optimization projects in different national and international production sectors and maintained widespread restructurings of SEW-EURODRIVE sites. For several years, he has been responsible for change projects within the development areas.

Thomas Rohrbach


Is managing director and co-founder of the STAUFEN.DIGITAL NEONEX GmbH, an international management consultancy for the digital transformation. As project principal and executive management coach he was responsible for multinational lean transformation projects. He has consulting expertise in lean transformation at several global clients in automotive, manufacturing, etc. His strong leadership and consulting experiences in smart factory, automation and global footprint projects have been developed over years. For more than 10 years, he worked as senior partner at the Staufen Group, Director International Business at the Staufen AG and CEO of Staufen China. Before, Thomas Rohrbach had been vice GM at Guangzhou Abitec and head of global production network at ABICOR Binzel. He is mechanical engineer (Dipl.-Ing.) and holds an MBA in international business and marketing.

Ulrich Scheipers

Schmitz Cargobull AG

Has been head of the production and assembly plant in Altenberge, Germany, of the Schmitz Cargobull AG since 2012. In 1987, he started his career in this company where he went through all management levels in production. In 2002, he founded the "Schmitz Production System" (SPS). As SPS-coordinator he co-designed today's “Schmitz Production System” at the location Altenberge. In 2006, Ulrich Scheipers became head of chassis manufacturing there. At the same time, he supported several sites in the construction of the production and the introduction of the "Schmitz Production System".

Florian Schercher


Has worked at the Staufen AG since 2015, first as associate, since January 2018 as project manager with main focus on the restructuring of SME companies. After studying business administration at the University of Neu-Ulm, Germany, majoring in controlling, finance and logistics, he worked as research associate for 3 years developing concepts for the integrated financial planning as well as their implementation in companies. Afterwards, he worked at the Wintergerst Societät, a consultancy where, as senior consultant, he was responsible for numerous restructuring, turnaround and growth projects. During his work at Wintergerst, he developed a strong, interdisciplinary knowledge in restructuring and finance.

Dr. Jochen Schlick


Is senior partner and co-founder of the STAUFEN.DIGITAL NEONEX GmbH. After his diploma in mechanical engineering, he did his doctorate in production engineering. He has dense expertise in the identification and implementation of Industry 4.0 as well as the application in logistics, production and maintenance. He systematically develops digitally enhanced products and corresponding business models. As project leader Dr. Jochen Schlick took over the management of international development and transformation projects. Among others, he was head of the future field cyber-physical systems at WITTENSTEIN SE and deputy head of the research area innovative factory systems at the German Research Center for Artificial Intelligence.

Dr. Stefan Schöllmann

DB Fernverkehr AG

Has been head of the division “Produktionskonzepte” at the DB Fernverkehr AG since July 2016. Following his studies in electrical engineering at the RWTH Aachen and the PhD in optical communications at the University of Kiel, he was employed at Lufthansa Technik AG with focus on lean management. In October 2011, he joined the DB Fernverkehr AG as project manager in fleet management. In 2013, he has taken over the factory management of the ICE plant Munich. As division manager Dr. Stefan Schöllmann is responsible for the overall standardized lean implementation within the DB Fernverkehr AG.

Hans J. Steininger

MT Aerospace AG

Is chief executive officer and co-investor of the MT Aerospace AG in Augsburg, Germany. MT Aerospace is an established supplier for the aerospace and defense industry, partner for antenna and mechatronic systems as well as corresponding services. Between 1991 and 1998, he held various management positions within the BMW-Rolls-Royce GmbH in Oberursel, Germany, and the BMW AG in Munich, Germany. Since the beginning of 1999, Hans J. Steininger has been managing partner of Apollo Capital Partners, a Munich based private equity firm. He holds a master’s degree in aeronautical engineering and a master’s degree in business administration, both from the Technical University Munich.

Emanuel Verheijen

Lufthansa Technik Logistik Services GmbH (LTLS)

Has been responsible for the central warehouse of equipment logistics at the Lufthansa Technik Logistik Services GmbH (LTLS) since 2013. He is in charge of the management and development of the areas warehouse, shipment and transport management. In his role he was significantly involved in developing and expanding the company location as well as introducing shopfloor management. Currently, he is concerned with the implementation of coaching and improvement KATA in the daily management. In 1994, his career began with the apprenticeship as merchant for trucking- and logistics services. After his advanced training for traffic expert (IHK) and his economics studies at the Goethe University Frankfurt am Main, Germany, various management positions at the LTLS followed.